Language Wars: Sign Up

Language Wars: Sign Up

on Feb 10th 2011 with 138 comments

Hey, guys! I’m launching a new series on Nettuts+ soon, and I need your help! The series is called “Language Wars,” and will provide two developers — who have differing views on a particular subject — with a pedestal to speak their peace.

If this sounds like fun, and you’d like to make some extra money, sign up in the comments!

I Don’t Get It

Okay, for example, the first entry, “jQuery vs. MooTools” will feature a die-hard fan from each camp. They’ll then have the opportunity to answer a handful of questions, and illustrate why they prefer one library over the other. Future postings could spotlight “CodeIgniter vs. Kohana,” “PHP vs. Ruby,” etc.

How Do I Submit?

There are a handful of rules and requirements that must be met, in order to be selected to represent your “team.”

  1. This is all in good fun. We’re not looking for mean-spirited, heated debates. Respect is key.
  2. In exchange for your opinions, each participant (2 per entry) will receive $100. Your name and company will also be promoted on the posting, if you wish.
  3. You must be relatively well established in your field. This should come in the form of at least 5 years of real-word experience with that particular language or framework. Please don’t apply within the comments unless you genuinely feel that you have a high-level understanding of the concepts and reasoning behind your choice.
  4. No winner will be declared. This isn’t about that; it’s simply a fun way to discuss your opinion.

Upcoming Episodes

  • jQuery vs. Mootools
  • PHP vs. Ruby
  • CodeIgniter vs. Kohana
  • .NET vs. Any Popular PHP Framework
  • Chrome Developers Tools vs. Firebug
  • JavaScript Libraries vs. Vanilla JS
  • Myspace vs. Friendster (…kidding)

So that’s it! Who’s game? This should be fun and educational!

 
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I'm the editor of Nettuts+, and love making the process of building for the web as easy as possible. Also, I'm finishing up my latest book on Laravel Testing! If you want be friends, say hi on Twitter.  

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  • Zac Vineyard

    I’d be happy to give my opinion. I’ve been a php developer for 8 years. Currently work as a programmer for a university. I love everything open source.

  • //adrusi.com/ Adrusi

    I’m hesitant to sign up for this, because I haven’t had the 5 years experience, and even though I consider myself very knowledgeable about javascript (especially the OO syntaxes), I don’t know what I would look like compared to best-in-field developers.

  • http://twitter.com/maxluzuriaga Max Luzuriaga

    I’d love to write for one of these. Passionate Ruby/Rails dev here, so I’d be happy to be on any Ruby vs. x or Rails vs. x round. Don’t have the recommended 5 years experience but I kind of think that’s an unfair rule for a specific language in web development, considering how often things change. That said, I am still a huge Ruby advocate and one of those annoying guys who’s always obsessively pushing Ruby to everyone on Twitter and Stack Overflow.

  • http://dougneiner.com Douglas Neiner

    Hey Jeff, I am not applying, but I wanted to say 5 years is a little steep for our industry. jQuery itself was released just a touch over 5 years ago, so very few devs (unless you hooked John Resig) will have 5 years of usage with it.

    However, this series sounds really fun!! Great idea!

    • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
      Author

      Hey guys – 5 years of experience is a broad span for all of our upcoming debates.

      So yeah, for this particular entry, I’d say around 3 should do.

      –

      Doug – why don’t you apply? You’re the perfect fit.

      I do want to make it clear to everyone, though, that this isn’t an excuse for nastiness (though a bit of conflict is always fun :). All of the languages and frameworks that we’ll be debating are fantastic. That said, I think readers will find it enjoyable to find out why particular devs tend to lean one way or the other…

  • http://www.metrolyrics.com Don Burks

    I would love to be involved in either the jQuery or the PHP debates. I am currently one of the Lead Developers for MetroLyrics, which is a site with over 40 million unique visitors a month. It’s built on PHP and jQuery. I’ve been building websites for over 13 years, and I strongly feel that I would be able to weigh in and give an informed opinion.

  • http://envato.com Ryan Allen

    Oh, I’ll so go batting for Ruby, I’ve been using it since late 2005 :)

    • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
      Author

      Okay, entry #2 will be “Ruby vs. PHP.” Ryan will be representing the Ruby camp.

      So who prefers PHP over Ruby, and can enunciate why?? :)

      • http://www.keithbluhm.com Keith

        PHP dev since, ohhh, ’97?.. professionally since February ’06.

        In fact I recall the new .php3 files popping up around mid-’98… funny to think about now.

      • Altaf

        Why don’t we have Python vs Ruby??

      • nuku

        @Altaf: Yeah, we definitely need “Python vs Ruby” and “Python vs PHP”. I’ve only been using Python for a year, though.

      • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
        Author

        Hey Keith – Do you have any Ruby experience?

  • http://jacobdubail.com Jacob

    I’m sure there a thousands of more qualified WordPress users out there, but I’d be stoked for the opportunity to take on a ‘drupal-loving’ or ‘ExpressionEngine-loving’ developer… but, I really only have about 2.5 years of experience, so that might not cut it.

    • http://www.lastrose.com LastRose

      I would love to see a mega CRM shootout.
      Drupal vs WordPress vs Joomla vs Custom made vs ???

      In such a battle I would love to represent the custom made

  • http://www.wdonline.com/ Jeremy McPeak

    Sounds great and fun! I’ll sit on team C# / .NET.

    • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
      Author

      Sweet! Hmm… .NET vs. ….

      Any ideas? So many to choose from!

      • http://newarts.at Drazen Mokic

        Maybe ASP.net vs PHP?

        .NET vs Java? // vs C++?

        or make a tri-battle .NET vs Java vs PHP

      • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
        Author

        Hmm – I always thought it was unfair to compare .NET to PHP. Maybe something else…

      • http://vivekipedia.tumblr.com Vivek

        Java. I ll be in for .NET vs JAVA or PHP vs JAVA (JSP and Web services). (debating against Java). or Hibernate vs Doctrine.

      • http://mokshasolutions.com Moksha

        I problem in .NET will like to see .NET team win.

        why its unfair to compare .NET with PHP?

        Because all the time people say PHP is better then .NET, only those people say who have not used .NET

      • http://jessewilliamson.net Jesse

        ASP.NET MVC vs Rails or some PHP MVC framework (sorry I don’t know any). I don’t have the experience to offer my opinion, but I would love to see that debate. C# vs. Java is kind of “blah” and isn’t necessarily a “Net” debate since both languages can be used for other applications. If the comparison is going to make sense, it needs to be comparing the web frameworks of .NET to others. As a side note, please don’t compare ASP.NET Webforms to something…I love .NET, but you don’t win too many arguments by throwing Webforms into the mix, IMO.

      • http://www.wdonline.com/ Jeremy McPeak

        While I agree .NET vs PHP is a bit unfair, PHP is the most popular language/platform. I think there should probably be a vs PHP for every language/platform.

    • Joe

      Me too Jeremy, looking forward to the PHP vs ASP.Net :-)

  • Dan

    Dang, here I wanted to talk about PHP but I’m a year short. Gah… one more year then :P

  • http://twitter.com/IsaacVanName Isaac Van Name

    I’d take the PHP side of things (having the 5 years of experience required) in the PHP vs. Ruby talk. Been learning Ruby as well to get an even perspective on that very subject.

    That’s all.

  • http://www.myrecipeez.com Damien Quintal

    Yea count me in :)
    I have been a JavaScript dev for over 5 years now, JQuery dev for 3 and a half, PHP dev for about 3 years and have recently started doing more in Ruby.

    Im also keen to look at peoples thoughts on different CMS products and how they stack up against each other – I have been supporting MySource Matrix and WordPress clients for years.

  • //adrusi.com/ Adrusi

    I’m assuming that one of them will be javascript vs. something, so what language will you choose to compare with javascript since there’s no alternative (at least in the browser).

    And outside of the browser…
    …no one has over a year or two of experience with that.

    • http://twitter.com/IsaacVanName Isaac Van Name

      An interesting discussion, as far as client-side scripting is concerned, would be the merits of Skulpt (http://www.skulpt.org/) vs. Javascript. For that matter, vanilla Javascript vs. any of the libraries would be a fun discussion, as I’m sure that fans of libraries don’t write everything in them (or maybe that’s just me). Knowing when to use or not use them would be a discussion that would actually be useful for developers.

      Outside of the browser… no one cares. This branch of the Envato empire is called “nettuts” or whatever they call themselves nowadays; they’re not falsely implying anything. They only care about web, and that’s that.

      • //adrusi.com/ Adrusi

        except that node.js (the best and most popular commonjs implementation) is often used for creating server backends, which has a whole lot to do with the web.

        another would be coffeescript, which is more popular the skulpt as far as I know.

    • http://www.lastrose.com LastRose

      I think for javascript, it would be better to compare the different javascript frameworks.

  • Raymond

    I’ve been a part time freelance developer the last six years, and I love using MooTools. I don’t consider myself to be a die-hard MooTools person, but I do prefer it over jQuery. It ‘d be great to get a chance to put in my 2 cents (and get $100).

  • http://sergio@sergiomasellis.com Sergio Masellis

    How about the hot debate now in days. Html5 vs Flash.

    (Im sure we will get a great conversation about that)

    I know 99% of devs wont have 1 year experience in html5 but still should be a fun debate.

  • Jiego Cordoviz

    Haha. The PHP and Kohana debates could be awesome. How about battle of the IDEs as well? Maybe like “Netbeans vs. Notepad++”? as i interchange my usage of the two.

    But uhh.. will there be a conclusion on these debates i wonder?

    • http://www.lastrose.com LastRose

      Notepad isn’t really an IDE, and doesn’t really bring much to the table.
      Eclipse vs Netbeans vs PHPstorm would be interesting

      • http://jessewilliamson.net Jesse

        Throw Visual Studio (proper) or Visual Web Developer for .NET guys into the mix on that. That would be an awesome comparison.

  • http://www.eddiemonge.com Eddie Monge

    If Doug or non of the other jQuery team people want in, then I’ll submit my name for jQuery goodness.

  • http://www.hambrook.co.nz Rick

    Since jQuery and MooTools are both actually Javascript and are merely frameworks… I propose Fanboy Wars as a title instead :p

  • http://blog.arosas.me Andres Rosas

    I would like to participate but unfortunately I don’t have that much experience in backend programming since I only have 2 years in coldfusion but most of my experience is mostly frontend for the past 8 years. But I would love to see Coldfusion VS PHP and thier frameworks.

  • http://www.iamiivo.com Iivo

    Hah… I’m not signing up, but this really made me smile ’cause just yesterday I was searching for a good comparison debate about PHP and Ruby. Interesting series. One topic that could also be interesting would be having to people talking about CMS, like Joomla! versus WordPress or something like that.

  • keshav

    I have only 2 Years experience but want to say somethng

    I Hate PHP( bcoz no MNC and posiibility of growth in terms of money) but love PHP ( bcoz it has a oot of fun and make u all time update , world is webby now)

  • http://vivekipedia.tumblr.com Vivek

    CodeIgniter vs Zend vs CakePHP ?? This is usually a question, as a beginner as to which framework to choose first. This would be quite ‘requirement based’ but would love to know opinions from the experts.

  • http://eliperelman.com Eli Perelman

    Instead of .NET vs. PHP (which should really be C# vs. PHP), how about ASP.NET MVC vs. CodeIgniter? I’ve used both, but would love to sit on the ASP.NET MVC side.

    • http://eliperelman.com Eli Perelman

      I am a front-end engineer with 8-9 years experience.

      • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
        Author

        Hey Eli — Yeah, that sounds like an excellent dual. I’ll keep you in mind for that episode!

      • http://eliperelman.com Eli Perelman

        Would also be interested in the Vanilla JS discussion.

    • http://jessewilliamson.net Jesse

      Ooooh, good one Eli. I think that would be a great debate. Exactly what I was driving at with my other comment.

  • http://www.bauglir.com Bronislav Klučka

    Hi, PHP since 1998 (prof. since 2002), JavaScript since 1998 (prof. since 2003), Pascal/Delphi since 1990/1998 (prof. since 2001).
    Wrote my own PHP framework currently runnig service sending approx 1mil. of SMS (cell phone messages) per month.
    Service is managed from admin written for Chromium using latest JavaScript technologies (WebApp).
    Collaborated on office software (document, cellsheet, UML editor) for large companies to manage internal document flow and processes (Delphi)

  • Joseph H.

    This seems like an awesome idea! I have been a freelance web developer for about 3 years now. Mainly focusing on frontend. I really love Javascript, it’s by far my favorite language. I’m not sure if I qualify but it would be great to do one of these debates. Also I thought maybe an interesting debate would be cross-browser programming debate. You could debate wether or not to worry about supporting IE in web apps, or relying on HTML5, CSS3, ECMAScript 5, etc… I would be on the not supporting old browsers side.

    Anyway, really excited to see this series.

  • Ferris

    Hi Jeffrey! New series sounds great, but what about finishing the previous one at first? :( I’m talking about “Converting a Warm, Cheerful Web Design to HTML and CSS”. would really appreciate if you finish it :)

    • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
      Author

      I’m traveling home tomorrow. So I can record that final episode early next week. :)

  • Jason Stanley

    So you need 5 years experience with the Language / Framework?

    Kohana is like 2 years old.. I guess this debate is limited to time travelers?

    • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
      Author

      It’s going to vary, based on the current discussion. 5 years experience, in general.

  • Elliott

    Dude….all i can say is: This is going to be epic. Looking forward to it.

  • http://www.grandse.org.ua GrAndSe

    Hi. I’m starting with Pascal/Delphi in 2000 and C/C++ in 2003, then starting 2006 working with Java and few month later with PHP and JavaScript. In 2008 I tried to work with ActionScript but in few month back to PHP/JavaScript. And since 2009 I prefer Python/Django for web development and Python/GTK for desktop applications development. Also I have some experience with C++/Qt, Ruby and RoR, Lisp/Scheme, Prolog and Haskell.

  • sirfilip

    Worked as Ruby, Java and now PHP developer, although Rails 3 makes me wanna go home :). I have used both Codeigniter and Kohana and i follow their progress. To be honest when i had to choose to switch from ci to kohana i had a list of pros and cons i would like to share them with you. At the bottom line i am definitely Kohana guy and i can tell you why.

    • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
      Author

      Can you email me to discuss? jeffrey[at]envato.com

  • Neil Pearce

    How about Steve Jobs v’s Bill gates?……be nice to get them in? LOL!

    Looking forward to reading these debates, good idea Jeff!

  • Mubarak Ali

    Hey jeff! i think u have become USA, creating war between two countries and earning through selling war items :)

  • http://www.what-a-geek.com/ Adit Gupta

    How about “Django vs CakePHP” or “Python vs PHP”? I would love to advocate for Python!

  • http://aircraftschematic.posterous.com Warren Seymour

    I’ve been working with PHP for about 7 years, and love it to bits. I’ll happily put the case forward against Ruby, ASP, etc.

    I used to be a TextMate fanboy, but I’ve recently discovered Vim, and believe that with patience and determination, it’s the best IDE you’ll ever use. So there’s another one for you.

    Warren.

  • http://dagrevis.lv/ daGrevis

    This is awesome idea! Just keep in mind, that there are no right answer. It depends. =]

  • Rolls Eyes

    My e-syntax is bigger than your e-syntax.

    Use the language that is appropriate for the job, stagnating in one language is a determent to ones career.

    This series will create a lot of animosity, better be prepared to clamp down on the trolls.

    • http://envexlabs.com Matt Vickers

      Debates are debates.

      Only immature people will get angry if their side is losing. I’m actually excited to see some of the pros of a language I’ve never used because most of the time you only hear the cons of lesser used languages.

      Sidequest: I’ve always found it hilarious that any negative comments never include a name/email/url. anonymity at it’s best. Man up people :P

      Signed,

      TheBiggestEPeenOfAll.

    • http://www.lastrose.com LastRose

      For all the animosity it may create, it will also enlighten a lot of people, and perhaps prod them into learning a new language or two. I look forward to see the fruits of this language war.

  • http://vestimir.com/ Vestimir

    It will be fun to share my opinion about PHP – why I hate so much things about it and why I love it and use it for 7th year. My expertise on the subject comes from my previous work in different companies and as a freelancer as well. I’d like to compare it to Ruby or Python and their way of doing things :)

  • http://magentix.be Kristiaan Van den Eynde

    What I’d love to see:

    - Loose versus tight languages
    By this I mean languages without type safety and with very loose variable handling versus type-safe, scope-strict languages. (JavaScript versus something C-like?)

    - Browser versus feature detection
    Given that many JavaScript programmers prefer feature detection, what could be said in defense of browser detection?

    - Drupal versus Joomla!

    - Joomla! versus WordPress

    • http://www.lastrose.com LastRose

      good suggestions,
      an argument for browser detection, it can be useful if a particular browser supports a feature, but it’s buggy or not fully implemented.
      (windows based browser with webkit had issues in the past with inset shadows and rounded corners).

  • http://www.reflexionsweb.info/ JImmy Lahaie

    I’ve been a web developer for 10 years using Microsoft technologie. I’ve started with ASP 3 (classic) then Asp.Net (web form) in 2003 and now i’ve been using Asp.Net MVC since the first version (in 2007)

    I would love to do a Asp.Net Web Form vs Asp.Net MVC (vs PHP, vs Java, …)

    For those how don’t know Microsoft technologies, there is a big different between Asp.Net Web Form and Asp.Net MVC so one vs the other will be a nice debate.

    I also have about 10 years experience with javascript and 3 years with jQuery. So i could also debate for jQuery.

    Jimmy

  • http://m.chorfa.net mohamed

    what you think about Objective-C VS C++ VS JAVA ?

  • http://chrismonnat.com Chris

    Would love to participate. Have been working with PHP for 6+ years and specialize in CodeIgniter framework and ExpressionEngine CMS. Have been working with both tools for several years. Would be cool to get a CMS debate going.

  • http://www.educsis.com edwin

    I would like to see EVERYTHING vs DOJO TOOLKIT ;)

  • http://www.jeffmsmith.me Jeff Smith

    OK Rails would need to be compared to a similar PHP framework (Akelos, Cake, CI, Symfony, Kohana, Yii, Zend etc). I could see it going against Django as well. It would be neat to incorporate some benchmarks in to the whole equation. You could build a blog in various frameworks (cause that is the new Hello World it seems) and rate them on various things.

    C# vs. Java anyone?

    Asp.net vs. Grails vs. Rails

    Apache Struts vs. JSF vs. JSP?

    Cassandra vs Couch vs Mongo?

    MySql vs. Postgre?

    Erlang vs. Hadoop?

    Clojure vs. Scala?

    Functional Programming vs. OO Programming

    I could go on. There are many wars out there. I believe some of them are pretty nasty.

    • Daniel

      >>Functional Programming vs. OOP

      That would be great – although I develop also OOP, most of the time I use “the classic way”.
      Most of the time you always here the advanteges of OOP but never the other way round.

  • Kris O.

    I wouldn’t mind a battle “ColdFusion vs. ASP.net” – Enterprise level heavy guns

  • http://newarts.at Drazen Mokic

    Is this going to be a text-based debate or maybe a podcast?

    • http://www.jeffrey-way.com Jeffrey Way
      Author

      Text — at least for now.

  • http://tommytwoeyes.com Tom Malone

    I would love to participate in this series! I am especially interested in participating in the PHP vs. Ruby article, and if you’d like, I’d be glad to also participate in a PHP vs. Python debate (I’d take the Ruby and Python sides, respectively, if you choose me).

    Thank you in advance!

    • http://tommytwoeyes.com Tom Malone

      I meant to also say that I would be glad to participate in a framework debate, specifically the awesome PHP5-based Yii Framework vs. any other PHP framework you’d like to compare.

  • http://www.mivamerchant.com Alex

    I could do Miva Merchant (closed source) vs. some open source PHP cart

  • Gavin

    Very interested in reading these as they come in.

    I would love to hear what the earning value is for some of these languages?
    Are java programmers paid more than Ruby ones? etc..

  • Moiz

    Been using Codeigniter since 2007. I’m all up to defend that!

    Hey wht about OS fir mobiles .. Like iOS vs Android ..

  • http://envexlabs.com Matt Vickers

    I’d be interested in joining Team WordPress.

    Written a few tutorials for NetTuts on the subject, and overall a fanboy :P

  • http://tutorial-city.net/ Eduardo Matos

    I would like to see a battle between Zend Framework and Symfony, the two greatest PHP frameworks nowadays.

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